In this episode, you’ll learn about balancing creative and logistical aspects of events, ensuring a high return on investment, and integrating experiential marketing with traditional marketing methods.
Kelly Markus is the CVO at Hunters Point.
Here’s what you’ll hear about in this conversation:
[00:00:08] Rachel Moore: Welcome to Event Experience by Bizzabo the podcast where we bring the best and brightest event experience leaders together to share stories, tips, and lessons learned from creating some of the world's biggest events. I'm Rachel Moore, your podcast host.
[00:00:24] It's high time we returned to the topic of ROI return on investment in event experiences. And Kelly Markus is the ideal guide for our journey.
[00:00:34] Kelly is the CVO of Hunters Point and her experience coordinating everything from luxury events to music festivals relies on defining and measuring ROI, incorporating social and public relations into event marketing, and cultivating audience engagement.
[00:00:52] Together let's increase your return on investment in your future Event
[00:00:56] Experience.
[00:01:06] Rachel Moore: Our guest for this episode of Event Experience brings to you, dear listeners, 30 years of executive event production experience with specialties that include film and theater production.
[00:01:17] So I find that interesting right out the gate. Her major commitments in her career are to high quality programming and creativity. So it's no surprise that she serves today as the CVO of Hunter's Point. I'm very excited to welcome Kelly Markus to the podcast. Kelly, welcome to, meeting me across microphones today.
[00:01:36] Kelly Markus: Oh, hey, Rachel. So great to be here. Thank you.
[00:01:40] Rachel Moore: I want to toss it back to you right away because anyone who goes and visits your LinkedIn profile is going to learn what I just told them, but there's so much more to you. So I would love you to tell us in your own words, like, what is your world like your day to day as the CVO of Hunter's Point? Fill us in on that. What are things like? Hmm.
[00:01:56] Kelly Markus: Things are very busy. Let's put a lot more color on that because a lot of people can say they're really busy. I love what I do and part of 1 of the things that I love about what I do is the diversity of what I do. So you mentioned how I've been working in events and experiential for a very long time and my day then can encompass, , because I've been working in this for so long, there's a lot of industries that Hunter's Point works across from luxury, entertainment, , music, fashion, financial tech and then event types. So we might have brand, a consumer facing brand that's coming in and saying they're putting together their next year's worth of experiential planning.
[00:02:48] And they want us to come up with the way we might do a launch event to the way we're going in and doing sponsor activations across a myriad of festivals to then how we might be integrating experiential tactics, along with their social and influencer and PR initiatives. Then I could switch gears and go and join a call for one of the festivals that we work on.
[00:03:15] Say the Pharrell Williams Something in the Water Festival where we help support brand partnerships and the productions around those and how brands are showing up at the festival. And so then we're talking about the production and what are the activation spaces and how are we being. How are we integrating them, and what are those agencies coming in with, and how are we being supportive for them to dream and innovate as big as they can?
[00:03:43] Then I might switch and have another call about an immersive experience that we've created with Ryan Seacrest, and something that we've created in partnership with him and his content, Studio Propagate, and the next levels for the building blocks of that. So the joy is the diversity and the range and, look there, there are also the other parts of the day where you're going and there's the joy and then you're going, Oh, okay, we're getting, we're pulling permits for this, or we've got to make sure we have enough insurance.
[00:04:20] So those building blocks that are not as sexy as the other stuff. So it's not all fun and games. It's a lot of hard work. Yeah. But that's why my day can go, I many times feel like from eight o'clock in the morning, it's like buckle up because we're now getting ready to drive about 110 miles an hour within our brain.
[00:04:42] Rachel Moore: And I don't know anything about driving a race car, but I think our event planners listening probably very much like identifying with that. They love the balance of there's the minutia and the logistics and like the paperwork you have to do, but then there's also just like, yes, but now I'm, just sparking my brain to life , with looking at something new to tackle.
[00:05:01] So it sounds very appealing and like you said, very busy. No, no chance of being bored really. Right.
[00:05:07] Kelly Markus: No, I am never bored on this. There might be occasionally the times where I'm just like, I don't, want to write another deck right now. And like, I remember graduating from college and being like, I am so excited that I never have to write another paper again. Well, that, that writing is still there.
[00:05:27] It's just now transformed in another way. And there's a ton of writing that I do, but, are all things that I'm very passionate about. you know, You brought up my past history which is still somewhat there within, say, film and theater, which are still two huge loves I have. I think the love that I have right now is, I always loved dance and art and music.
[00:05:53] I mean, there's just culinary, food and beverage. Who doesn't like food and beverage? This is a life and a career. I always say, I have a career. I don't have a job. I have a career. And yes, I have a personal life and I have things that I like to do on my own, but I think the joy of what I do is I love what I do so much that it's, I get excited about what I do and it's sometimes I go, this is my job.
[00:06:20] I pinch myself that this is what I get to do for a living.
[00:06:24] Rachel Moore: Yeah. I imagine that's very relatable and it does, it sounds like a dream job.
[00:06:29] Rachel Moore: We're going to get to know you with some personal questions.
[00:06:32] And I always just love hearing these different answers from people. What are your go to on the ground event day shoes of choice?
[00:06:39] Kelly Markus: So I actually have flat feet and, long story short is I never should have become a runner. But I became a runner and I used to run four to five days a week. And long story short is I destroyed my feet. They still look very cute. And part of that is I have some surgeons to thank for that.
[00:06:57] But I have to be very careful and we are on our feet in doing this, this work a lot and this is the joy in living the kind of entrepreneurial amazing world that we're now living in, which is there have been some companies that have come out. One is called Vionic and one is called Vivaia and they now make the cutest shoes.
[00:07:18] For all kinds from sandals to to flats to all kinds. And so I will rock out those shoes. I was actually in, Nashville just recently. We had a huge activation for BNY Mellon at their annual conference that we just produced and we're in this massive convention center and I legit rocked out these cute sandals with two inch heels and I was walking, 14, 000, 20, 000 steps a day, rock those things out and made it happen.
[00:07:55] Rachel Moore: Wow. That's awesome. My daughter has flat feet, so I'm actually going to share those shoes with her too, because, , poor, poor thing. I
[00:08:01] Kelly Markus: have that
[00:08:02] Rachel Moore: Feel your pain, feel your pain. Is there anything that you're listening to, watching, or reading these days that you can't put down?
[00:08:10] Kelly Markus: Oh, so, I definitely will get into the binging. I just completed Drops of God, which I find, I love, I have admiration for wine and yet I also feel kind of intimidated by it. It's not like Scotland where you go to scotch and you can go great, one country regional and you can really learn scotch very quickly.
[00:08:32] Wine. Completely intimidating. And what a wonderful series in order to get into that. Not to mention bringing in some French attitude. , and when I need to get really heady and I feel like I need to understand certain things economically or politically in the world, Ezra Klein over at the New York Times, will break it down.
[00:08:52] And, I just think he's such a thoughtful and big hearted human being. But one of my artistic loves is I will always take a look at Park Avenue Armory and what they have booking, in every year and this year, I would say their 2024 season is something that I would absolutely want to get tickets to probably every single show in Dresdnet as an immersive experience is looking crushing and killer.
[00:09:20] I'm thrilled that as myself and that the way that Hunters Point is that there are things that we get to work on that are not only about, say, branded work, they're also entertainment focused, and I think that's a big part of this, that I like to look at, how are we looking at life and what is happening in life, and not just only looking at branded work.
[00:09:44] In fact, I would say, I admire my competitors and my other associates who are in this glorious, wonderful, crazy world of experiential marketing and live events with us. But we probably at Hunter's Point, we take most of, and I take a lot of my inspiration by going and saying, buy tickets to that crazy, weird opera that's playing at the Park Avenue Armory and who knows what will come out of it our imaginations as we dream, whatever the next campaign is going to be,
[00:10:16] Rachel Moore: Love it. Love it. Is there a social post or a piece of media or a hot take, even about events that you found interesting lately?
[00:10:23] Kelly Markus: I think there's, it's not so much one, but the chatter that's going on with AI. Now here's the hilarious thing is that we're all kind of joking around in event production. We're like, how is AI going to replace my job? And look, I've actually seen some places post and they're like, I used AI to design this campaign and I'm like, that is not a way that is the bad dabble , but we're excited to see areas like we actually just proposed an idea to a client about integrating AI into a photo booth experience for something on site, and I can't reveal any more to it, but I mean, that is the way that AI is pushing areas around what we can do in terms of innovation and integration that I think are really exciting.
[00:11:16] And isn't it always fun to see how the traditional photo booth experience is evolving? . But, yeah, at the end of the day, I don't know that there's actually going to be an AI that's going to be setting up the stage someplace. So I think is, I think we've chosen our jobs well there, but it is incumbent upon us.
[00:11:37] We actually have a policy here where we do not use AI in any of our creative conception. So we keep it all human here. No offense, there's probably AI listening to this right now. So AI, don't worry. You have a place. Be on our Zoom note taker.
[00:11:53] Rachel Moore: Well, I was going to say, I mean, the next thing, you know, I'm going to have to ask AI to be my guest and I'm going to ask it what its event issues are, I wonder how it would answer.
[00:12:00] Kelly Markus: I'm very curious on that.
[00:12:02] It's like, I, I also have flat feet.
[00:12:04] Rachel Moore: But we're going to dive into today, I think a main topic that you are going to help educate us on and share your insights about, isn't really about feelings, but it's about, money and value.
[00:12:15] And specifically those three magical letters, you all know what I'm about to say, ROI, return on investment, because at the end of the day, you're feeling great about, I get to be creative and, put these skills to work and whether it's, again, it's a bit, mundane stuff or exciting stuff.
[00:12:32] All of it is driving toward, those three magical letters, ROI. So I'm going to ask you, Kelly, to describe for us, define ROI and how it figures into the events that we plan and design. Mm-Hmm.
[00:12:45] Kelly Markus: So first off, I will just say I am a very left brain and right brain kind of person, right? So we've heard the phrase art and commerce. And to me, that's where the business side of this is. So yes, return on investment and return on investment manifests in a couple of, in many different ways, actually.
[00:13:07] So one is actually, like, let's just get down to the dollars and cents, can your event or that experiential marketing campaign, can it actually drive sales?
[00:13:18] Rachel Moore: Mm-Hmm.
[00:13:19] Kelly Markus: Or revenue hard cash that's right in there and that is very measurable. But there are other things such as brand awareness. Now before social media and people saw the beautiful kinship and supercharging that social media could do for live events. There were probably a ton of other kind of, clever ways that I think a lot of brands or production companies might've tried to help support. I mean, look at the end of the day, people have said, no, there's magic and there's specialty.
[00:13:58] Like there's nothing like getting together and having a live event, but really we've moved and we have ways to measure more concretely things like brand love, building audience, and building brand awareness. And while PR has been a constant measure of that, this other piece about truly audience and influencers, micro influencers of transforming a consumer into a brand ambassador, not just influencer and celebrity brand ambassador marketing. These are all part of the ways that there's measurable ways to get into what was your return on investment? What are those goals? And then, of course, you get into the other tangibles.
[00:14:46] The number of people that are there, the sampling that is happening. So to me, ROI, it's first outlining what are those primary goals. And we many times get into that where a client or a partner is coming to us and saying, well, this is our initiative and this is what we're looking to achieve.
[00:15:04] And this is what success looks like for us. We will always, and this is one of the reasons why when I founded Hunters Point, what did I want to differentiate in the marketplace, and I felt whether I had seen that missing in agency, previous agencies that I had worked at, or media companies, not all, but, some, and where I was like, this is actually what I want to be part of the backbone of what we do at Hunters Point is to actually say, we're going to go beyond just what you've come to us for and say, okay, you wanted us to build audience. Great. We're going to build audience. We will ask some hard questions and see what we can do to build in more of what we're calling real ROI into the events. And
[00:15:55] We can dive down that rabbit hole.
[00:15:57] A lot.
[00:15:58] Rachel Moore: I think, well, and that's what I wanna dig into is I think you just refer to it kind of too. That seems to be your philosophy on, on real event ROI. And I know you've got some more you can share about that too, because, I mean, if we look at it, gathering people for an event is one of the most costly marketing investments, right? So I definitely want to hear what your philosophy is. And I'm trying to, what is real event ROI look like when we consider that it's one of the most costliest,
[00:16:24] Kelly Markus: Great. And you bring up a great point, which is when marketing budgets to, you'll notice the really easy and hard way when, I know that sounds crazy, easy and hard way, but let me put it this way. When brands or companies have to retract and they're making budget cuts. And if you go out there and you look at a lot of brands and they talk about what 2023 was like, it was a lot more challenging than, I know it was a lot more challenging than I thought it was going to be, what a lot of people thought it was going to be.
[00:16:59] What you could easily see was budgets on events and experiential we're getting slashed. And why is that? Why is that when you look at it and you see what's happening within digital or influencer and whatnot. And I always say it's because experiential is the hardest and it is, the most rigorous and at times it can be the most expensive.
[00:17:26] Kelly Markus: I mean, I go and look at like, , some kind of social digital posts that happens and how that can be put together and the budget that goes to that, getting together a graphic designer or maybe a copywriter. And look, there's some really savvy stuff out there, but at the end of the day, there's a lot that can be stretched there.
[00:17:46] Experiential and live events when done well, are time intensive. And for the dollars. they're tough and look, we have done some projects that are 20, 000, 25, 000, which is a very low barrier for entry. But we have to be really savvy about how we're spending those dollars and many times we get clients who are coming in with, they have got even more ambitious goals, and they do have that. It doesn't matter. Every, every dollar will count and we have a sense of responsibility for that. And so therefore, I feel it's imperative for us to say, we know you're somebody went through a hard decision and they're putting themselves out there to say, we're going to invest in this live event or this experiential campaign.
[00:18:41] So we better get as much bang out of our buck for it. And that's when we start really saying, okay, what are those primary goals? Great. What else can we get out of it? Have you thought about selling at the event? That's been things that people have been like, oh, we didn't realize we could do that.
[00:18:59] And I'm like, absolutely, we can try to do that. And depending where and how, what we're doing. We might get people coming in and saying, well, what we're doing is, we just want to, we want to do something that, goes viral. We wanted to go viral, we wanted to, like, really just catch all over the internet, really eye popping.
[00:19:19] And we're like, great, have you thought about can we work with the PR team for that as well? Let's do it. Work in tandem for that. And if we're going to go viral, that's all great. But how are we, doing this where we're trafficking 200 people?
[00:19:34] Can we get to trafficking 2000 people? So many times people will come to us with a initial request. We will start asking all these questions and finding out where else can we start adding additional value to what they're doing in order to say, here are all of the ways in addition to those primary goals.
[00:20:03] And we know we've got to knock those out of that, but what else can we do to give you the return on the investment that you are making here?
[00:20:11] Rachel Moore: We'll be right back with more Event Experience after the break.
[00:20:17] Rachel Moore: Behind every great event organizer is software that makes managing the small stuff easy. So you can focus on crafting events that matter. From seamless registration and onsite solutions. Like the Bizzabox to powerful dashboards and the KLIK smart badge, Bizzabo Event Experience Operating System is your all-in-one solution to planning conferences that captivate and experiences that elevate. Visit bizzabo.com. That's B I Z Z A B o.com to learn more.
[00:20:48] Rachel Moore: We're back with Kelly Markus to get a reality check on how quickly or slowly ROI can be realized after an event.
[00:20:58] Rachel Moore: When it comes to seeing a return on investment, everybody wants to see it immediately, you know, sooner, the better it'd be like, Oh my gosh, you know, we can talk about like life cycles to the customer life cycle and how events play into that.
[00:21:08] But we all know there's hardly ever that really immediate payoff to investment including for events. How long would you say, and I know this might be a nuanced answer, but how long do event planners typically wait to see their total ROI for an event that they help plan?
[00:21:23] Kelly Markus: Well, and that's where it depends on the event,
[00:21:27] Rachel Moore: Mm hmm.
[00:21:28] Kelly Markus: So we recently had a ticketed event for client. So there are sponsorships that were part of the plan, meaning selling, helping to sell in sponsors, sell tickets to the event. No merch on sale, but then the other was how can we grow the audience?
[00:21:46] Growing awareness, building up the audience on their social channels. So we had, and part of our task was the event marketing for that. So that was within our scope. So from the minute we're kicking off and actually there's the planning that goes into it, it's preparing to launch, like. Do the press release, tie it in with the social media announcements, and our team was also able to come in and put a bigger strategy around the social marketing in terms of that hadn't been leveraged there.
[00:22:22] And it's going, let's not just look at Instagram. Let's also look at TikTok. Well, we don't have a you know, TikTok channel, and we're not sure that we want to have one. We don't, but actually the exhibitors who are at your event are on TikTok. And here's how you can integrate a TikTok strategy into your own social media strategy.
[00:22:45] You're not creating a TikTok channel. But you're just leveraging that awareness. So what happened is week over week across that eight week event marketing cycle, you're starting to see that grow. So every week you're able to come in and see, here's how we grew audience on Facebook, on Instagram. Here are the sponsors that we're able to announce and be a part of this.
[00:23:10] Here's how we're able to grow and get new members into the organization that signed up. And again, that's all cascading and giving us as event planners the opportunity to measure that sense of awareness. Not just awareness, but then so you're getting the media impressions, but also growing actual audience and subscribers in that way. So that helps. Then you get to the next piece, which is your ticket sales. So you're also seeing that. So you're selling those ticket sales and we've all probably seen what it can be like where ticket sales are happening incrementally. And then you're also thinking, how do I get to this? If I'm not getting into a sold out hit, how am I converting, right?
[00:23:56] Those last several days, that last week before you're selling tickets, if you haven't sold out, this is your last chance to really find a way to get that in and even on the day of, that particular event, it was a brand new event. It was not sold out and yet we were able to put in several additional tactics into the last couple of days.
[00:24:20] And then even on the day of, we found that we were able to leverage things that were going on in the neighborhood. People who were discovering for the first time, Oh, this event is happening? I didn't know about this. I'm actually going to come back and check this out. And would buy a ticket right there.
[00:24:39] So we actually got a nice big surge of tickets on event day of the unexpected, but, , purchasing right at the door kind of tickets. Then post event, then you get that wonderful ripple effect, which is what I think most of us are experiencing as event producers. Then you're coming in with, what did your exhibitors say?
[00:24:59] What did your exhibitors sell? If that was something there. Now again, I'm talking about a promoter producer event versus what you might experience with an experiential campaign. Let's say you're popping up a pop up store, a pop up experience that's happening over the course of a weekend or just one or two days during the week.
[00:25:19] And it's not until you get to release that project unto the world and birth it out and people get to see it. I do think that piece, and there have been plenty of times, and this kind of goes back to the whole ethos of this. We can either look at this as our clients come in and say, I would like you to do this for me, and I would argue that it's always important for us to connect the dots, to again say, we can do that for you, but how can I go beyond because you deserve it?
[00:25:55] I've had events where the client said, no, no, no, we've got a PR team and a marketing team. They're going to take on marketing the event. We will still, and many times because we've been doing this for a long time and we know a lot, we will still say, hey, we've got some things that we can lend to the table in order to help you because we've seen what may happen where it was on somebody else to get the attendees and then suddenly what does it look like when the attendees aren't there?
[00:26:30] Right? It wasn't our job. We weren't hired to do that.
[00:26:33] Rachel Moore: Mm
[00:26:33] Kelly Markus: But at the end of the day, aren't we all kind of really like anybody who's part of that? You really should be part of helping support your clients, even if that wasn't in your scope. So I, I just feel strongly about that.
[00:26:48] Rachel Moore: Everyone's got a piece of that ownership.
[00:26:50] Right. Of saying, well, We all have reasons we want there to be a full house. We all have reasons we want this to almost be a wait list too, where people wish they could come and maybe they can't, where you're building that anticipation for it so that you do get that full house. Cause obviously that gives you the best chance, right. To make all that investment back, on everything, but you're absolutely right.
[00:27:12] And of course, it's a two way street where they're like, great, you know, and, and here's what we're doing. Just having that relationship's got to be super important. But, speaking of that, we just talked about, like, I know I just listed it off and this circles back a little bit to what you had said at the very beginning, there's the event, but there's all these other kind of campaigns that brands can do.
[00:27:30] You know, we talked about events being maybe, you know, in many cases, a little bit more expensive kind of investment in a campaign than say, if you did, Hey, let's go do a growth campaign with, Google search ads and YouTube video ads and stuff like that. Can you describe how experiential ROI is different from the ROI you get from more traditional marketing efforts and campaigns?
[00:27:53] Kelly Markus: Sure, what I feel with experiential is you're getting to actually interact with, with real humans, as opposed to the amorphous media impression,
[00:28:06] Rachel Moore: Mm Mm hmm.
[00:28:07] Kelly Markus: It has its value. We also count media impressions within our, event stats too. So not looking down on that, but at the end of the day, experiential allows us real opportunities to connect directly with the audience, whether it's a B2B or B2C audience, and therefore we're getting real input from, as opposed to just certain metrics that might be flying off. And that's one of the reasons why it excites me so much and why I, I think I've always pursued, I've actually had opportunities where people have said like, would you consider becoming like the brand director and I, I've stayed in my, sweet spot, which is I want to stay with events and experiential because I see the value in being able to hear directly and interface directly with a person. That's what makes to me to the point where we're making about before, yes, experiential marketing pound for pound is more expensive.
[00:29:15] But the value, because at the end of the day, things don't buy things, people buy things, and your customers are other humans, and you're not gonna get, like, this is the human experience at every sensorial level. And that, to me, is what is the most effective. And that's why there's been numerous white papers out there by the legendary companies like the Jack Morton's and the, , WPP conglomerates that have already come out.
[00:29:49] And we've known for decades that experiential is the most effective form of marketing, of which initiative you're going to.
[00:29:59] Rachel Moore: If you want that direct interaction and any salesperson will say this too, you want to get the person on the phone. You want to get them on a zoom call on a demo. You'd be able to lock eyes with someone on the screen, even if they don't show their video, but at least you have a real time interaction. And there's so much more value to that than doing that asynchronous, those asynchronous things in that the digital campaigns and, , where, you know, it's a, the, customer choosing their own adventure to find their way to you are absolutely still valuable. We're not negating that, but there's just so much more value when you can make that human connection.
[00:30:32] Now there's an accountability. And it's just like, I think about Kelly, you and I talking on this podcast, we could have just sent you a questionnaire and you type out your answers and then we post that on a website, which we certainly can do, but there's just so much more there when we have you.
[00:30:46] Your voice telling us this, your own personal experience, it's more real.
[00:30:50] Kelly Markus: Well, right. And to that, right? So here's an opportunity for a consumer. We're now in conversation with each other. We are not, this isn't a pitch. That's what a lot of traditional marketing is. It's like, I'm pitching, I'm trying to get your attention, make my argument, and hopefully I've been persuasive.
[00:31:11] And that when done well, it's wonderful and incredible. And clearly that's at the heart of a lot of marketing. But there is a sweet spot when you get into conversation with A customer, a consumer, an attendee, and that has a transformative way of deepening a relationship between a brand and who's ever on that receiving end.
[00:31:39] That creates an affinity that I, I just think is way deeper than that first time. Like, I'm scrolling through the New York Times and I see an ad.
[00:31:48] Rachel Moore: Finally, easiest question of all, where can our listeners find and follow you online?
[00:31:53] Kelly Markus: So I'm a total nerd and I love LinkedIn. Love LinkedIn. And, I rock out some LinkedIn. It's exciting to also to see how more people are using that platform in order to, , illustrate more about their values and not just like typical work posts and such. It's a, great place to support. Also, I'm a big believer.
[00:32:15] It's a world of abundance. So this should be a place where we're also celebrating. Yes, they could be called competitors, but I like to think of them as other businesses that other associates that work in and I respect their work and I will happily give them a shout out. And then I've gotten clients from LinkedIn.
[00:32:33] So hey, if you're looking to build your business people go to LinkedIn. It's a great platform for that. So you can hit me up there. I'll be as friendly as possible.
[00:32:43] Rachel Moore: As we skill up with Kelly today, she reminds us that branching out into new areas is a benefit for a great career.
[00:32:59] Kelly Markus: Do not be afraid to dabble, around within this. I think there can be a trap where people focus on, I'm just going to look at doing, say, music events, or I'm just going to look at agency life and I'm only going to work on agency work and you bop from agency to agency. I remember, early on before I even got into, and fell into this industry.
[00:33:35] I would say it was a headhunter who actually placed me at my very first events and experiential agency. She looked at my resume and saw the theater, she saw the film work, and she was like, you're a little all over the place. Now I want you to look at, now people, like, fast forward now, decades later, and people look at my resume and they look at the media company work and the event work there, the agency work.
[00:34:01] The brand work, the festival work, the culinary festival work, the music, theater, film, and now they go, you're so diversified. So don't be afraid to dabble. Who knew that way? I was like, that doesn't sound very powerful. And I tried to make it sound powerful. Don't be afraid to dabble, darling.
[00:34:23] [00:34:23] Rachel Moore: Thanks again to Kelly Markus for joining us on Event Experience. And thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, we'd love to hear it. Connect with us on social and subscribe rate and review us wherever you're listening. Also, don't forget to share the show with your colleagues and friends. You can find transcripts of each episode and key takeaways on Bizzabo.com/podcast. On behalf of the team thank you. We'll gather again soon for a new episode of Event Experience.
