In this episode of Event Experience by Bizzabo, host Rachel Moore interviews David Grass, Senior Director of Client Strategy and Marketing at Wilson Dow, about the findings from their pop culture trends report. The discussion explores how event planners can move beyond transactional experiences to create transformative, fan-driven events by leveraging data, understanding audience emotional connections, and curating year-round journeys that foster true fandom rather than mere attendance.
Key insights from the conversation include the shift from FOMO (Fear of Missing Out) to JOMO (Joy of Missing Out), the importance of cost and value proposition in attendee decision-making, the role of invisible technology in enhancing event experiences, and the need to cater to multi-generational audiences through data-driven, personalized journeys. The episode emphasizes bringing greater intention and emotional resonance to event design, using data and technology as supportive tools to create a meaningful, lasting impact for attendees.
Here’s what you’ll hear about in this conversation:
Rachel Moore:Welcome to Event Experience by Bizzabo, the podcast where we bring the best and brightest event experience leaders together to share stories, tips, and lessons learned from creating some of the world's biggest events.
Rachel Moore: I'm Rachel Moore, your podcast host. From here on out, I'll be addressing y'all as fans.
Rachel Moore: In this episode, we welcome David Grass, Senior Director of Client Strategy and Marketing for Wilson Dow to dig into the findings of their pop culture trends report.
Rachel Moore: There's a treasure trove of takeaways in our discussion, as well as a slew of terms and audience tendencies that will help you craft events that go beyond transactional and into the realm of transformative.
Rachel Moore: I mean, who doesn't want that at their next event experience?
Rachel Moore: Welcome everybody to another episode of Event Experience.
Rachel Moore: I am so excited about today's guest because our podcast guest is rolling in with over 18 years of agency side marketing and client strategy experience.
Rachel Moore: So, anyone out there who does agency side work, I know your ears are perking up right now.
Rachel Moore: These days and for the past five years, he has served as the Senior Director of Client Strategy and Marketing for Wilson Dow.
Rachel Moore: I'm very pleased to welcome David Grass to the Event Experience Podcast.
Rachel Moore: David, thanks for joining us today.
David Grass: Thank you Rachel. It's a pleasure to be here and we at Wilson Dow are very honored that you are having us on this morning.
David Grass: So, thank you.
Rachel Moore: Oh my gosh, I feel very honored. I we're, we're, we're all just swimming in honor right now, so I love it. Uh, this is gonna, it's gonna be a great podcast.
Rachel Moore: I dunno, this one's relevant just about to, about anyone who does events, 'cause we always have those long days.
Rachel Moore: Uh, what are your go-to on the ground event day shoes, when it's gonna be a long day?
David Grass: So Rachel, it's as if you know me, uh, quite well. I am a sneakerhead, admittedly, and StockX is feeding me the latest Jordan ones every day because they know that that's my favorite. And I am a huge, huge sneakerhead.
David Grass: So, Jordan Ones, to specifically answer your question. Today I am wearing Adidas 1972 something or others that, that StockX also sold me.
David Grass: And I'm not doing a commercial for StockX, but I get their feed every day and it's scary, and my wife thinks I'm nuts. But I am a huge sneakerhead and I love, love, love Jordan's. I think growing up in Chicago and being a diehard Bulls fan and Michael Jordan fan. It's always special putting on a pair of Jordan Ones.
Rachel Moore: Let me ask this, uh, is there anything that you're listening to, watching or reading these days that you can't put down and it does not have to do with events?
David Grass: The bad answer is it does have to do with events because I am, uh, I'm, I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. I, I'm currently reading Play Bigger, which I love. Four authors that came from the event world. Really talked about sort of, how you prepare, pitch, succeed, differentiate, and really challenge the status quo.
David Grass: If, for those of you that have not read, play bigger, I'm about halfway through it. Love it. And it it, it challenges you to think differently about your day-to-day, no matter what industry you're in, which I always love. So it's a bad answer maybe, but, but that's what I'm currently reading.
Rachel Moore: I wanna say is I think it's been a minute since we've gotten a good book recommendation, so I am here for it. I love it.
Rachel Moore: A couple more questions. Is there a particular social post or a piece of media or even a hot take about events that you found interesting?
David Grass: So it's, it's so funny. I was on LinkedIn this morning and there's a bunch of people that I follow religiously, but one individual in particular that I'm knocking name. He went off on some just tirade about signing up for an event app, and getting flooded with what he called garbage, and I'm being PC here.
David Grass: And, and his point in the LinkedIn post was, I am never gonna sign up for an event app again. And it's hysterical. But more importantly, I think it really taps into much of what we talked about today, which is like, if you're gonna use tech in very specific ways with your audiences, that invisible notion must be present. They must feel like it's deriving meaning.
David Grass: And the minute somebody like this author feels like he's getting sold X, Y, and Z nonstop, he's out. And, and that's the world we now live in. It's so easy to unsubscribe. It's so easy to create trolls and, and, and you really have to be thoughtful about this scrolling always on lifestyle that we all live.
Rachel Moore: That's so interesting. We actually, on the most recent, uh, networking webinar we did for Bizzabo, uh, one of the, uh, speakers, Will Curran, he said he, he the same thing, he's like, if you've got that kind of messaging that can happen in your app, you've gotta moderate it. You've gotta create rules, rules of the road there.
Rachel Moore: And because people will absolutely go in there and start spam, spam, spamming, and then guess what?
David Grass: They're gone.
Rachel Moore: gonna bounce as,
David Grass: Right.
Rachel Moore: by the person you saw. So, yeah. It's, it's for real.
Rachel Moore: Well, I, I obviously gave a super, the briefest of brief introductions, uh, to you, you know yourself best.
Rachel Moore: I would love to toss it over to you. Can you tell us a little bit more about what your day is like, uh, in your role at Wilson Dow? What does that entail? What are you doing over there?
David Grass: Absolutely.
David Grass: So, we at Wilson Dow, we're a creative production agency and we have clients across many different verticals, and we are responsible for the strategy, the creative, and then the production and execution of events of all sizes and shapes.
David Grass: And so, on the client strategy side, I am collaborating very closely with our clients as well as our prospects on really arriving at a future forward and differentiated approach to their events and experiences. Whether those events be in the room on the screen, hybrid, year round, sort of look, feel, tone of what a journey can be.
David Grass: We really challenge our clients respectfully to think differently and to arrive at innovation, not for the sake of innovation, but more so in attendee data.
David Grass: And how do we leverage what we know about our audiences, and look at that relative to what the competition's doing, where the world's going in pop culture, and what we're gonna talk about today, and how do we arrive at a future forward experience that's rooted in what our people actually want. And, and our people are the heartbeat of the event, and how do we continuously deliver meaning and value and exceed their expectations at every touch point.
David Grass: And so, it's my job to summarize, to really understand where events are going and why in being able to deliver to our clients and prospects journeys that inform our creative, our production, our execution of any event or experience.
Rachel Moore: Wow. I, I bet that our audience is very excited to hear from you then today, because isn't that what we're all trying to crack, like the future forward of events and just knowing how to know what, uh, the audiences want so we can plan those and give it to them, and then everybody's happy at the end, including internal stakeholders and sponsors and, and all the, the business reasons, we do events as well.
Rachel Moore: But, um, I'm also excited because you pretty much segued really nicely into what we're about to introduce because you did mention Data and how crucial, how fundamental that is to your job, and really the job of every event planner out there, anyone tied to events.
Rachel Moore: So, in case anyone wasn't already aware, Bizzabo loves reports. We love them and we're not the only ones.
David Grass: We do too, Rachel.
Rachel Moore: You do? This is so timely.
Rachel Moore: Um, so they're, they really are like the receipts of the events industry. And, uh, today we have the immense privilege to peek at a very specific set of data that every event professional is going to want to get their hands on.
Rachel Moore: David, can you please tell us a bit about Wilson Dow?
Rachel Moore: What, what we're sharing today, uh, that, that y'all have, uh, have derived from all that data seeking?
David Grass: Absolutely.
David Grass: So, to take a step back, you know, we attend South by Southwest every year and there was a light bulb moment, I was sitting in a seat at South by, and one of the big tech companies was doing a fireside chat. They were talking about inspiration. The panelists were, they were talking about where does inspiration come from when it comes to flagship tech events?
David Grass: And that's one of the many types of verticals that we play in as an agency. And the CMOs response to that was, we send six employees to Disneyland every year.
David Grass: And, that's a very common approach in our industry that a CMO will take a group of event planners and they'll go experience a concert at the sphere. They'll go to Disney, right? They'll go to a, they'll become a Swifty for a night. And all of that's great.
David Grass: And we do the same thing on some level as well. And, and you start to derive sort of what are those wow moments in pop culture that land really well? And how do we bring that back to our turf for our clients?
David Grass: And, and that is an observational way of thinking about pop culture and data. And the light bulb moment at South by Southwest was really, I, that's all great, but what is the attendee? What is the human, what does the fan think of all of that? And how can we uncover it, to really understand and validate, what humans want and what success looks like to them when attending pop culture events, experiences, that landscape?
David Grass: And we felt like there wasn't a lot of recent data out there addressing the fan. And so, what we set out to do was to say, let's look at fan data to support in fueling our clients and prospect's future in relation to what I brought up earlier, Rachel. You know, we do a lot of prospect persona data studies where we're working with our clients to understand their audiences, and that's very common.
David Grass: And so, how do we juxtapose that with taking a glimpse into pop culture and saying, instead of going to Disney and going to all these events. Let's talk to the people that go to them and let's get really smart on what's working and what's not and and how do we apply that to our future.
Rachel Moore: I love that you call them fans, too. Uh, I, I, anyone who's listened to this podcast, uh, either one episode or multiple. We talk about audience a lot. And attendees, audience kind of interchangeably.
Rachel Moore: Um, and real briefly, would you mind expounding a little bit, like when I say audience versus fan, what do you see the differences being versus like, Hey, I'm an attendee, or an audience member versus a fan?
David Grass: Yeah, I, I think fandom really ties into culture. I think it ties into community, and I think there's a deeper unspoken meaning that is more on the emotional side.
David Grass: And I think when you're an attendee, they're the functional elements. You're there for the musician, you're there to hear the latest track. You're going to a show on Broadway, because you've heard about that. There are many different ways fans engage with pop culture.
David Grass: You know, I think, I, I think for the true fan though, it ties back to that emotional connection that they have, not only with the artist or the venue or what is in front of them, but the people around them.
David Grass: One of the things that Chelsea, my teammate, and I uncovered in this study is the importance of that year round community and that year round culture and fandom is not about going to a show, experiencing it, leaving it.
David Grass: It's that 365 degree journey of being a fan. So whether that fan, whether you're a fan of Kaitlyn Clark, whether you're a fan of the new Intuit dome right in Inglewood, California that Steve Ballmer from Microsoft built, you know, there are fans that from all different areas, of course, across the country.
David Grass: The question then becomes from a fandom standpoint, how are we building an emotional connection with these people year round? And, and what is that unspoken thing? That red thread that they all latch onto? That, in our mind, is fandom. And that's what our clients on many levels are trying to achieve with their quote unquote audiences.
Rachel Moore: Absolutely.
Rachel Moore: I mean, who, who listening or watching this video is, um, or this podcast is not gonna say, we want fans. We want that kind of committed where it's like, hey, it doesn't matter what topic you're putting out or who's there, I'm a fan of your brand. I'm a fan of what you're doing. I'm going to be there, or at least, experienced immense FOMO if I'm not there.
Rachel Moore: But you're right. It feels like it takes it to at least another level up, if not multiple, um, of, from just, I am showing up, swapping my badge, and now I'm attending, I'm here, versus "Oh, I'm so here on multiple levels", right?
Rachel Moore: Where it's like I am committed and I'm in.
David Grass: Right.
Rachel Moore: Everybody wants the fan.
Rachel Moore: And I, I wanna, so let's dive in a little bit to some of the aspects of the data that y'all found. Uh, I just mentioned it first up, FOMO, Fear of Missing Out.
Rachel Moore: Which has often prompted event planners to pack their events right up to every nanosecond with content and sessions because nobody should miss anything.
Rachel Moore: David, what is the data? What does y'all's data tell us about FOMO and how does that figure?
David Grass: Yes. So one of the really interesting insights that we uncovered in our pop culture data study was that a more selective attendee is emerging, and we like to categorize that in the framework of JOMO, Joy of Missing Out, and, and how do we transition or shift from JOMO to FOMO. And that kind of gets back to that root of fandom that you're describing.
David Grass: And what we learned in the study is, you know, from a consumer perspective, there are more events now than ever before. So choice it, perhaps there's too much choice in fact.
David Grass: Also, you know, attendees view their time and their value of their time very differently than they did call it pre pandemic. And you know, a lot of attendees, like one of the key questions is, you know, how do you get them off the living room couch?
David Grass: In two year venue or two year experience for our external audience clients, for example, for our internal audience clients in the biotech space where they're required to be at those events, it's a little bit different, but to achieve that fomo, you know, you have to start with that journey and the pre-promotion of, of where you wanna take them.
David Grass: So I think both with external audiences, internal audiences, you know. It gets back to that sort of self-selective audience that's emerging. And the implication is of course, well, what do we do about that, right? And, and for that more selective audience, we need to create a curated journey for them, that feels like it's always on, that feels like it's ever evolving.
David Grass: That feels like you're deriving value year round. Whether it's a biotech internal sales kickoff of the year, whether it's, you know, a product launch, whether it's a flagship tech event, you know, or wool two, or we do many of those for our clients.
David Grass: It all gets back to sort of that feeling of that curated journey.
David Grass: That's what we heard loud and clear from our study, that that's sort of at the highest level, that's new, the new expectation.
Rachel Moore: Yeah, uh, and, we're hearing a lot about this lately too. I mean, you know, obviously we have guests like yourself here on the podcast. We do webinars on panelists, we talk about this.
Rachel Moore: We're very much, we resonate with everything you're saying because people are looking for more and it goes right back to what you said about trying to build a fan.
Rachel Moore: Well, the way you're gonna do that is if you, you feel like, hey, we're hand in hand with you every second, every step of the way. We see you as more than just a transactional body or person who's showing up another number in our registration count.
Rachel Moore: That they're meaningful to you as the event designer, as the people putting on the event. Therefore, they're feeling that, that meaningfulness, uh, on their side.
Rachel Moore: The JOMO is great. It it, it's JOMO, Joy of Missing Out.
David Grass: Joy of Missing Out. Correct.
Rachel Moore: time I've heard it ever. So I feel, I feel lucky and hopefully if anyone is watching this.
David Grass: And, and what, what, what we love about that is not, it's not to say they're not gonna come to your event or they're not gonna be happy there. It's more to say expectations of attendees are on the rise, and we really have to be strategic about engagement and about sharing that meaningful emotional connection to them in ways that we may not have in the past.
Rachel Moore: Yeah. Well, and it, it's also, it's not a negative connotation, like you said. I mean, Fear of Missing Out is negative or it's just like, I'm, I'm, I'm all a flutter, you know, I'm in my fields because I can't be there or can't get there.
Rachel Moore: And we're gonna touch on that in the next question I wanna ask you about their report, but Joy of Missing Out. It really does feel like, no, no, there's, there's a commiseration, there's a camaraderie here. We're enjoying this journey together, uh, even when there are like those missed touch points. But we'll see you on the other side of that. There's more to come and I really like the, the whole vibe of that and you pointed out too, and this is gonna lay up the next question I wanna dig into with you,
David Grass: Yeah.
Rachel Moore: The data y'all found. Obviously. said people are being way more selective? I think everyone can probably relate maybe more now than ever before on something about the bite of the budget.
Rachel Moore: Where obviously anytime you're looking to, Hey, I may or may not go be a fan and, and this particular experience. Guess what? If there's a dollar amount attached to that, that's gotta be high on the consideration.
Rachel Moore: So how much, uh, fans and attendees are willing to spend? What does the data from your report say about the before an attendee does or a fan clicks?
Rachel Moore: I'm gonna use before they click purchase.
David Grass: Totally. Yeah. You know, one of the key insights that Chelsea and I uncovered was that cost is the singular barrier, if you will, when it comes to pop culture, followed closely by time, convenience, the number of share events you have, StubHub fees, which is a whole nother subject for another podcast, Rachel.
David Grass: But, but on a serious note, you know, cost is a barrier in the pop culture world, and, and that's a real thing that we're seeing and we heard loud and clear in this study. I think from a. Event, sort of biotech bringing it back to the industry, so to speak. We're taking what we learned from, from, from those insights in, in really rethinking the value proposition to the attendee.
Rachel Moore: Yeah.
David Grass: And I wanna touch on that because I think that for so long. When it came to promotion, when it came to comms plans for events and experiences, typically it's about the early bird pricing. It's about the save the date. It's about sharing a keynote speaker in the wow moment. Those are all, and those are all table stakes and still part of the equation.
David Grass: I think getting back to that idea that we uncovered with that curated journey feel, . How do we make the value proposition feel like this experience was truly built for me? And so, that's a different lens, is an implication to the insight to say, when we're strategically working with our clients, there are simple things, right?
David Grass: Rethinking registration. How do we get to know the whole person, not just their persona at work? What are they, what does Rachel Moore do in her personal life? What are her passions and interests? Right?
David Grass: How can we bring some of that to the event? So that's a small part of it. The bigger part of it is going back to this whole discussion today around data.
David Grass: How can we ask the right questions to derive data that's gonna create that curated journey for them, or at least begin to create that. You know, we have some clients that are very new to this process, and so, you know, that's one way in. I think another really important point is, you know, people often think about value proposition in terms of how do I sell that ticket? How do I get that attendee there? And that's all part of this equation like we've talked about.
David Grass: But just as important is once they arrive and once they begin to experience the adaptability, and how do we leverage tools like AI?
David Grass: In so many new functions that we have within the space of tech to say, based on what Rachel experienced on day one of this event, we're gonna now prescribe what we think she may be most interested on days two and three, or based on what she experienced in our one, you know, now all of a, and so now all of a sudden we're putting clients in the mindset where maybe it's not a prescriptive two or three day agenda.
David Grass: In fact, one of things, Chelsea and I. Especially for older generations, they like structure and, and they want that framework. So, we have to be very cautious. But for the younger generation, for Gen Z, they're very comfortable with like wellness breaks and, and not a stack back to, back to back schedule.
David Grass: And so, those are all the things we're balancing out and looking at from a data perspective to say, this journey isn't one size fits all, and it's gotta be tied to both the emotional and functional side of the human and how do we leave less to chance for people moving forward? And I think just to summarize this, rethinking the value proposition.
David Grass: I think for your listeners, the, the best way to think about this is in the old days, the creative brief was how do you wanna make people sort of, think, feel, do, act?
Rachel Moore: Yeah.
David Grass: And now in our mind, coming outta this data study, all that's still true. But how do we plan to make people feel like this experience changed them?
David Grass: And I think that that's a really big part of what we uncovered and, and sort of putting them in that protagonist role and making them feel like the protagonist.
David Grass: And when you do that, now, all of a sudden at each touch point from content to networking, which is a huge part of any event, to exploration and demos and all of the things that are happening, evening events.
David Grass: How did this experience change me? I think that that's a critical part to the way we view strategy and data moving forward.
Rachel Moore: That's, that's a mic drop right there because, I mean, you just made me kind of think too, it's like, it's almost like when you, have a, a book that you read. That you, maybe you only read it once or even twice, but you, it's something with that sticks with you and it does change you as a person. It changes the way you feel or think about things or the world. And that events can do that.
Rachel Moore: I so appreciate you bringing that up too, because it really does raise the bar and I think too, really takes like, I feel like sometimes we can. And we talk about this a lot as well, in a lot of our content. It can be become very rote where it's like, I'm doing this event, churning it out.
Rachel Moore: I just need to get butts in seats.
Rachel Moore: I need to, you know, get the salespeople, the leads and stuff like that. And so, you're very focused on that. And of course we all should be. But, don't minimize, I guess, the impact that your event can have on a singular person to, like you said.
Rachel Moore: If you can transform somebody by virtue of them having experienced your event and that's huge.
David Grass: 100%.
David Grass: And I think that feeling and, and that's what we tell our, you know, biotech clients in the internal space where they have a sales force or a sales kickoff, 500 people and half be there.
David Grass: No, you're not selling a ticket. No, there's no cost. That barrier is not there. But to your point on what you just said, how are you gonna make these people feel like this really did change them?
David Grass: And what are the touch points to do so.
Rachel Moore: Wow. Oh, well, everybody, uh, are in a new age and we need to be, oh, I, I love this whole thought too because it's, it's, it really does mean so much to the people listening to this too. You have a lot of responsibility and you know, with great power comes great responsibility. And the fact that the things you design, even just a webinar can, can be transformative.
Speaker: We'll be right back with more event experience After the break.
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Speaker: We're back with David Grass from Wilson Dow to delve into tech's role starring or supporting in events today.
Rachel Moore: You brought up something too, uh, talking about being able to craft, you know, use technology like AI and things to craft or even pivot someone's journey throughout an event, um, where it does feel very custom based on like how they're, they're treating each minute, each hour.
Rachel Moore: Our favorite topic, or one of them obviously is event tech, uh, we're having an inception moment right now as we talk about, you know, via through tech about an event tech podcast about event tech.
Rachel Moore: Let me ask you this, because we have had some folks, you know, they, we will often have guests who really dig into a specific event, and I always ask people like, "Hey, was there a specific activation or an aspect of this event that you'd like to call out?"
Rachel Moore: We have heard a lot of people say, yes, there was this technology that we used, um, you know, that, that really stood out. Should event planners be putting those new technologies, like where they're front and center in the spotlight and the main thing to look at? Or is it better that they're in the background? You know, I, I don't notice it. I don't see it. I just feel it's presence and know it's working.
Rachel Moore: Like kind of what is the data saying about either or being best?
David Grass: Absolutely. And you know, in the world of pop culture right now, it's a great question because of course ChatGPT, AR/VR, it's everywhere you go.
David Grass: And so our big question was exactly what you've posed. And what we found in the pop culture data study was that actually the more invisible, so to speak, the technology is the more impactful it is on our people.
David Grass: And more specifically, you know, I think what's really important to note is that oftentimes when we go to conferences, we were just at Event Marketer Summit, we talked about South by Southwest. When you go to these events and everyone's talking about ChatGPT.
David Grass: The first question is like, how am I using this tool to create the buzz in the wow and all of this great stuff?
David Grass: And for us, it starts of course, with the data. Ironically, which is what we're talking about today, and it's like, what are we trying to achieve because of what we know these people? And then is there an interesting way that the tech supports that?
David Grass: So, a very simple example was we were at a recent event and at the end of every session they had a QR code come up and you could download, uh, by way of the QR code in real time, an event session summary across. And, and this was in every room you went to.
David Grass: So, very simple execution with ai, where in real time during the q and a of a breakout session, you're already getting that report. And why that's so critical for our clients is because oftentimes, some of their teammates are in the room and, and others aren't.
David Grass: And so, how do you inform and educate your downlines that weren't in that room, what just happened? And now all of a sudden they're texting and emailing on their iPhone exactly what the spit out was of that se that particular session.
David Grass: And I think really soon, Rachel we're, which is exciting, we're gonna get to this place where, like, just taking that one example, you know, there may be six personas sitting in the same session and they, they by way of AI may get different session summaries from the same speaker.
David Grass: And so, I think that's where we're going. But to take a step back, is it about the technology and the ai? Or is it about the human getting what he or she needs in real time to best support them their journey, their business, their teammates. And for us it's the latter. And so, you know, that's one example.
David Grass: You know, I, I think another great example of what we uncovered in this study is, you know. One to many environments like keynote rooms, you know, are now being broken down because you can get the one to many experience at home.
David Grass: And so, what we uncovered in this study is really sort of from a mini community standpoint, we saw the impact that social environments have, and so, taking a step back, you know, people ask us all the time, is content still king?
David Grass: You know, content is king, but along with conversation and how are we leveraging content to drive that conversation and create that sort of social content factory, if you will? And, and technology plays a huge role in that.
David Grass: So it's a long way of getting to the idea that, you know. The tools help. The AI is a game changer. No question about that. I don't think anyone would fight us on it, Rachel.
David Grass: But I think that the bigger question we always say is, you know, are you creating frictionless environments where the tech, again, based on this insight that we uncovered, it's about the invisible impact it's having on our people.
David Grass: And I think, you know, one great recent example of that is the Intuit dome in LA. I know I briefly mentioned that earlier, but in talk specifically about it, but for your listeners, you know, Steve Ballmer said, I wanna create the first stadium that's completely cashless, where you will never wait at a restroom ever again, where you will never wait to get food or snacks or beer or like whatever you're there for.
David Grass: And, and so he took away every pain point and, and use technology and, and for those of you that have been in the stadium, you know exactly what we're talking about.
David Grass: But the reason why he did it wasn't for his technology to fuel the journey. It was so that the fan was continuously in his or her seat, enjoying with the people that they were with, what they came to see and experience.
David Grass: And so, it's a small micro, it's a microcosm of what we're seeing in an, from an event, you know, event and um, journey standpoint in terms of where the world is going, where tech plays a huge, invisible supportive role, oftentimes, within the context of the fan journey.
Rachel Moore: I gotta say, uh, and you know, y'all know I, I identify as a woman and I just know that, just that pain point right there, usually we're the ones waiting in the line the longest at the, at those kind of venues. So, yay. Um, that anytime you can remove that and make it frictionless, like you said. But I, I even think too, like I'm someone who, uh, in this, we're about to talk about generational stuff in a second, so prepare yourself.
Rachel Moore: But, I, I'm someone who's always loved to like live. I don't even, this is anymore a term anymore. Live tweet, or live post about, Hey, I'm in this talk. And I just heard an awesome soundbite. Even you sharing about like getting that AI uh, synopsis afterward, is huge because yes, the tech delivered that to me and I'd be like, that's pretty cool.
Rachel Moore: But then I'm like, but I'm even cooler because I'm the one sharing out this awesome thing about where I just was and everybody should know what I just learned. And so, you're so right that it, it really does, that kind of tech where it's like, it lets me still shine as the fan. Um, it, it makes that easier for me and, and helps my whole experience.
Rachel Moore: Yes. Super cool that it's there, but, uh, that's really interesting about the role it can play in that and kind of like what level of spotlights on it.
Rachel Moore: So David, uh, I, I teased out a little bit. We were gonna talk about generational, generational stuff. Uh, I am a Gen Xer. I, I will ask you if you wish to identify yourself, what generation you are. You do not have to answer if you don't want.
David Grass: So Rachel, I learned a new term this morning from my teammate Chelsea, which is Cusper. So I am on the cusp. Who knew of where you are, and being a millennial, I'm right on that border. So, so today I'm gonna side with you and, and be on the Gen X side.
Rachel Moore: Let's do it. I, and again, I learned two new terms today, which as a Gen Xer, yes, I always learn new things because then, you know, it's always about the lingo. I gotta know what the terms are.
Rachel Moore: All right. So the reason I wanted to bring that up, and we, obviously we've got two Gen Xers though, you know, you could claim millennial.
Rachel Moore: And then obviously you mentioned Gen Z already and things like that. We've got boomers, um, or, you know, the, the greatest generation, all these ones. And then I think my kids are gen alpha, which is, I don't need to tell them that they're alpha anything.
Rachel Moore: But, so I'm asking about generations because one of the tightest tight ropes, uh, toughest tight ropes event planners walk is how to cater to all the generations.
Rachel Moore: You alluded to it earlier, you know, it's Gen Z's gonna have a way different way they like to flow through an event than say, someone who's a Gen Xer, like myself or yourself.
Rachel Moore: Especially if you're designing an event for a broader audience where all those multiple generations could, could be there. Can we help our audience out a bit here with the reports findings on how do we navigate these, the, the multi-generational stuff.
David Grass: Yeah, and, and you know, for us, going back to that notion of the curated journey, because I think that is the new beginning point to planning from a data standpoint what we know about these people. And, you know, tapping into generation, you know. Let's take the Chicago Cubs, for example, uh, local to Chicago, diehard fan over here.
David Grass: Many of our, and I bring up the Cubs because from a pop culture standpoint, many of our clients in tech, in biotech come to us and say, I have 8,000 people coming to my event. I have 20,000 people.
David Grass: How do I create that journey? How do I create that curated feel? How do I tap into what you said?
David Grass: You know, understanding generational nuances and, and leaning into those. And so when you take. Uh, the Chicago Cubs, right? They have 81 home games a year, let's say, and they have 38,000, 40,000 fans attending every one of them. And so that's one great example of a property in pop culture that said, we used to target to those 38,000 people.
David Grass: That's actually with data now the wrong way to go about this. What we now have done is segmented out our audience from a generational standpoint to say we have people that come to games on Friday afternoon, and that's our networking crew, right? They're taking that Friday summer afternoon off to socialize with potential clients, persona, new persona.
David Grass: They know they have a, they a client that is a persona database, so to speak, of really passionate fans that are there to see rivalry games. So, that became a persona. Those that only care about like the big games of the year.
David Grass: Then they had, you know, another group, weekends and family, right, Sundays. And how do we tap into families in a really interesting way so that mom and dad feel included with the kids when attending that type of experience.
David Grass: And I think that's a great example of a brand, so to speak. That used to take a one size fits all approach to the d different generations and now they're taking a step back to say, yeah, we have 40,000 people in the stadium, but they're all there for very different reasons and promoting in very different ways to them to get them in the stadium.
David Grass: And whether it's kids run the bases after a game, tactically speaking, to appeal to a family on a Sunday versus a beer special on a Friday afternoon to be in the bleachers in network. Very different ways in to reach very different people based on age, demographic level of fandom, and what the Chicago Cubs know about those people.
David Grass: And so, circling back to this idea of data, I think we really have to take a step back. You know, one of the things we see in the industry, Rachel. That ties directly into your question is oftentimes event planners do a post-event survey, of course, and they learn a little bit and it's usually quantitative in nature and it becomes sort of the guide to planning the next year.
David Grass: And the challenge with that is that it, when you do that, you get a better, it's relative to what the attendee just experienced, and you end up getting a slightly better version typically year over year.
David Grass: Starting where we did today with like my role being to drive innovation and differentiation and to deliver that future forward approach, we typically create a manifesto for a client, which is really let's, let's take your audience in, in, instead of after the event, eight months before the event, let's do a data study with them.
David Grass: To say what is their view of event success when it comes to content networking, exploration? What do they want from us moving forward? What do they want for a journey?
David Grass: And then planning against that. And that's a much more proactive way from a data standpoint to plan versus reacting to what you gave them in saying, okay, that speaker was a four, six out of five, or that demo was a three, five out of five.
David Grass: We shouldn't, you know, you make small considerations year over year, but it doesn't really drive the innovation that many of our clients initially come to us for.
Rachel Moore: Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. I mean, I think we're all, like you just said, we're all very used to the post event survey, but there's nothing stopping you from asking ahead of time, what do you wanna get out of this? You know? And especially if you did go last year, great. Think about that. What are you expecting now and all of this, really does circle back nicely to what you said at the very beginning, future forward.
Rachel Moore: The last thing you wanna do is get in that rut and just be like, oh, just same old, same every day. You can't do that anymore. Technology's different. Like you said, pop culture's always evolving. The venues are also always evolving.
Rachel Moore: All of these and the sentiment and everything and new generations figuring in, we have. Really skated around all of these things and all of this data, , which we've gotten some sneak peeks from you during this discussion, is gonna be in the report too. So just this is so helpful for our, uh, our audience, our fans. I'm gonna call them fans from now on because thank you so much. I, I, I, I'm embracing all this awesome and very relevant terminology today.
Rachel Moore: Where can our listeners find and follow you online and also where can they find the report that we've been referencing today?
David Grass: For those listening today, they can download our full pop culture data study at Wilsondow.com and we really encourage you to take a read through, share your thoughts and input with us, and we love to have discussions with everybody about where the world's going and why.
David Grass: So, don't be a stranger. Take a read through, reach out to us. Let us know what you think.
Rachel Moore: Awesome. And then where do we find and follow you online?
David Grass: So I, uh, on LinkedIn, David Grass, I work at Wilson Dow. You can just put that into the search box. I will come up, uh, my teammate who's with me today, chelsea does such an outstanding job of marketing and PR and sharing the latest and greatest of what we're up to.
David Grass: So, definitely follow us. It Wilson do. And a great way to stay on top of where we believe events and experiences are going throughout the calendar year.
Speaker: David's skill up advice requires us to put a little more thoughtfulness into our event planning.
David Grass: I think the one, the one thing to take away is how do I bring greater intention to human engagement and changing types?
David Grass: And what that means to us really is how do we become this change agent? You know, Wilson, now we talked about power of life and how do we create meaning and value and unique experience design and.
David Grass: And really move audiences through a year-round journey using our events as like these critical touch points. But I think the one thing is how do we bring greater intention to our people and really challenge ourselves to take a step back and say sort of, why are they here, but why are they really here?
David Grass: And begin to uncover what that emotional connection is. And it's so easy to get lost in so much of what we talked about in terms of technology today.
David Grass: And staying on top. You know, we have a whole digital team it Wilson send out for a reason. They know the latest advancements in ChatGPT, that Chelsea and I may not.
David Grass: But I think for us as an agency and for us as sort of this community that plans events, it's really about how do we bring greater intention and that's the number one thing that we try to do. I, I, is just that.
Speaker: Thanks again to David Grass for joining us on Event Experience, and thank you for listening.
Speaker: If you're enjoying the show, we'd love to hear it. Connect with us on social and subscribe, rate, and review us wherever you're listening. Also, don't forget to share the show with your colleagues and friends.
Speaker: You can find transcripts of each episode and key takeaways on bizzabo.com/podcast.
Speaker: On behalf of the team, thank you. We'll gather again soon for a new episode of Event Experience.
